No, We are not "All Just Sinners, Anyway"

Col. 3:3 "For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God."

Recently, I was having a very friendly discussion with a dear brother on Facebook to whom the Lord is giving an increasing amount of influence. He has graciously agreed for me to share about our exchange. I will keep his comments private. The post below went beyond our discussion as I searched the Word under the Holy Spirit's guidance.

This whole subject arose from my brother in Christ’s posted a view on Facebook with which I have strongly disagree for quite a while. So we had a very friendly discussion about his position on the difference between a sinner and a saint - or lack thereof. He shared that “the difference between a sinner and a saint is that the saint is the one seeking after righteousness,” with which I wholeheartedly agree. But the next, and last, sentence "went there." You know, to place many go to when they are trying to be all-inclusive, wanting everyone to feel loved and accepted? It's a noble goal. But words matter, so we have to be careful how we go about achieving that goal. We certainly ought to make people feel loved and accepted, but not at the cost of truth.  

I am referring to his next sentence: "they [the sinner and the saint] are still both sinners." If he’d said, both people still “commit” sin, I’d not have any cause to disagree, because that’s true. But since he said “they are still sinners,” that’s where the flags went up. It makes me want to yell, "noooo, we are not!" How could I still be a sinner when by choice I have been born-again (John 3:3), spirit-filled, (Acts 1:8) Jesus-chasing (though not yet perfect) saint (Matt. 6:33). I'm still a sinner? So accepting Christ's sacrificial death on the Cross in my place, did nothing for my condition? As the kids say, "Nuh-uh!"

Of course we had a very nice “discussion.” I just added a little drama above to make the point. But seriously, I just wanted to post about this because it's been a bothering me for a very long time, especially when I hear it from the pulpit. Of all people, ministers should know better. Here are the points I raised below to show the incongruity of being both a saint and a sinner:

"SAY IT AIN'T SO," SAYS THE APOSTLE PAUL

1 Corinthians 5:17-21

¹⁷Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. ¹⁸ Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, ¹⁹ that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.²⁰ Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. ²¹ For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 

IT'S A "NATURE" ISSUE

I disagree that someone can simultaneously be a sinner and a saint. I believe saints are sinners saved by grace though we still have remnants of our sin nature in our flesh. That's the part of us still being transformed by Holy Spirit. That's why we are working out our salvation with fear and trembling. You have to subject that flesh to obedience to our now regenerate spirit which is in lock step with the Holy Spirit. Saints are no longer bound, nor characterized, by sin. The saint's character is now hidden in Christ. And we are changed as more of Him is revealed in us. Sinners, conversely, both bound and characterized by the sin in their flesh. In other words, they are still enslaved to their sin nature. The sinner's flesh rules his being (with the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life), whereas the saint's human spirit (where Holy Spirit comes to dwell) rules his being. It is very crucial to understand this because you may set yourself up for deception by the enemy to make you believer lies about yourself. The only person the saint is "enslaved" to is Jesus Christ.

IT'S AN "IDENTITY" ISSUE

Now, whether the saint still identifies with his old man so much that he is still living as if he's still bound up in sin, is really up to him. That is, he is in habitual sin with an assumption that if he dies with his unrepented sin, he will still inherit heaven. How can that be? That person is really still a sinner until he is ready to submit and allow Jesus to be his Lord. (Please see two previous posts on “Submission”).

 

Any areas of our lives that we have not submitted to God because we think we can handle it (addictions, lusts, lying, etc.), will still make us look like sinners. I believe there is a level of grace when a saint is newly saved. God understands it’s a process. That is why He gave us the Helper – Holy Spirit. But if you are struggling with habitual sin 5 or 10 years later, might I suggest that you are not saved by the Bible's definition of salvation. And all in all, it is just a very bad witness to those in your circle.

We really can't call ourselves children of God while acting like children of the devil, and expect that to be okay with God. But let's face it, I have those areas that are not a perfect witness of Christ’s character in me. More specifically, I struggle with patience. But then, you have some areas, and so does every living saint. I am not speaking about character issues that God is working out as we yield to him. And when I talk about being a sinner, that is not what I am referring to. Saints are still being transformed under the direction of Holy Spirit. Put another way, saints are still being perfected, but they have submitted themselves to the Perfecter, yielding themselves to the Potter’s molding hand. But both are not still sinners.

So although I do agree that one (the saint) is seeking first His righteousness while the other (the sinner) is not, the saint lives by the degree of the revelation of Jesus Christ in his life, while the sinner is still dead in spirit with no revelation of Jesus Christ. He is not moved by the Lord nor is he concerned with what Jesus thinks about anything. He is living for himself, that is until the time when he begins to search and, by God's grace, find salvation. The saint is born again of the water and of the Spirit, and it, therefore, regenerate; while the sinner is not born of the water and the spirit; and is, conversely, un-regenerate.

It's nice to be inclusive but to God the saint does not look the same as a sinner, but now looks like Jesus. And the best part is, the Father’s heart is turned towards favoring the saint as much as He favors the His Firstborn Son, Jesus. You see, the saint is just as much a “son” of God as Jesus is, but only in as much as the saint is “in Jesus.” As a matter of fact, only those truly walking with and following Jesus are in fact, saints. You are not a saint because you said a prayer once, if you are not a follower.

So on my friend’s point that we are all sinners, even those who have been saved, that's where I disagreed. A saint does not have the same character as a sinner. A sinner us one without God, outside of the Family and Kingdom of God whereas the saint is a child of God and within His fold. Further, the sinner has more of an "excuse" to sin because he has not met God, and may not even have a “sin consciousness.” The saint has no excuse, because the Holy Spirit is there to guide and direct him. We have the Word and the Spirit Whose job it is to constantly direct us to Truth, Jesus Christ. As Christ-ians we are saying to the world, "when you see me, you see Christ." That’s a very high standard I know but that’s the mandate as His Body. That's the goal. That's why leaving the house before centering ourselves in Him leaves us so open to operating in an uncharacteristic manner, trying to please ourselves and other people. 

THE CONDITION OF BEING A SINNER AND
THE CONDITION OF BEING A SAINT ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE

The thing is, both sentences negate each other. You say they are different, then you say they are the same. That can't be because the thing that separates the groups is a non-negotiable. There is no other way around it -- the life in Christ. We can't leave this alone because the Bible is very clear on the subject of the difference between those without and those with Christ. Those changed by Him and those who remain unchanged. The Bible tells us, " You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn-bushes or figs from thistles?" (Matt. 7:16).

Do you have Christ honoring fruit in your life or not? If none of your fruit honors Christ, you are neither a Christian, nor a saint. But, the great news is, as long as you are still breathing and able to make that choice, you can be.

All saints were once sinners.

And that's an accurate statement, "all saints were [indeed] sinners." That is much different than saying, "all saints are sinners. The first is biblical but the last is not.

WHY SO ADAMANT?

You're probably wondering, why I'm so adamant about this subject. Well, I hear it far too much, even from pastors and ministers, and it is wrong. All kinds of flags go off when I hear it. And I know it's all about inclusion and wanting to show that we are no better off. That all sounds nice, but it's not the truth. I mean, can it get any better than to be able to say, "God is my Father?" Oh, my! Whaat! I am seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus; I am the head and not the tail, above and not beneath; I have all I need for life and godliness; I have been grafted into Abraham’s promise is a son of promise; we are a peculiar people a holy nation and royal priesthood… I can go on. In fact, you finish the list if you can. We have the goods, we are the light of the world, a (collective) city on a hill (as the Body of Christ) ...

But the godless sinner, where is he? So when you go into your next meeting, audition, tryout, trial, whatever challenges you face, this is your reminder of just who, and Whose, you are.

These Bible passages may already be very familiar to you.

 MY POSITION IS SCRIPTURAL

This is Scripture. A sinner is 'in sin' because he has done nothing about his sin condition, while a saint is ' in Christ', because he has repented, asked forgiveness, and has accepted Jesus’ sacrifice for his sin. This is all Scriptural. Consider John the Baptist's ministry at the Jordan telling people they must repent. Would they have been exactly the same after they repented as they were before? No, before they sincerely repented, they are sinners.

After they comply with Christ's requirement for righteousness, they are no longer identified by that old sin nature. 2 Cor. 5:17. Additionally, think of Christ's ministry to Nicodemus in John 3, that he must be born again otherwise he could not enter the kingdom of God. Sinners do not enter the Kingdom, only saints do. And why would I need to be reborn if everything stays the same?

Please do further study on the definitions and the differentiation between saint and sinner. For these discussions, let’s look at a few Scriptures from different “writers” of the Bible (yet One Author), who are really saying the same thing:

 

1.) 1 Peter 4:18, he says:

 

"Now 'if the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?'"

The “righteous” are the saints which is his mind it is a settled fact that they are not the same as the sinners. The sinner is ungodly, according to Peter, and the righteous are in right standing and at peace with God. So they can no longer be labeled as “sinners.”

2.) Paul addressed it in 1 Corinthians 1:2-3:

 

² To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

³ Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus  Christ. 

Notice, "those who are SANCTIFIED in Christ Jesus, CALLED to be saints.  Only those washed by the blood of Jesus Christ have peace with God. Paul is saying wherever people call on the name of Jesus whom He has sanctified, these are saints. 

3.) Matthew weighed in on this differentiation as well. In  

Matthew 9:13:  

 "I did not come to call the righteous, BUT sinners to repentance.  

 Once they repent, they can no longer be labeled “sinners.”

 

4.) Rom 5:8 is pretty strong reminder as it refers to

"while we WERE still sinners Christ died for us." 

Paul is reminding the believers in Rome that they “were” sinners at one time. They no longer can be characterized by that label.

 Again, how about the first thing Peter says in his letters? In   

5.) 1 Peter 1:2. It's virtually the same thing Paul said to the Corinthians in his first letter to them, even to the greeting and salutation:

² elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

 

Just like Paul, Peter addressed the called-out ones, those washed in the blood of Jesus Christ. Again, showing us that sanctification is what makes the difference between saint and sinner. 

THE DIFFERENCE WAS THE FIRST THING PAUL COVERED IN HIS LETTER TO THE CORINTHIANS

 

Please note that this issue was the first item Paul covered in his letters to the Corinthians in 1 Cor. 1:2. Do you think it's important? Of course! He said you have been sanctified so you are now saints. You are not the same as you were before. Perhaps they were having an identity problem then as well, so that he needed to encourage them that they were now different. He was letting them know that they were called out and called apart from the rest of the world. Recall the Scripture above in his second letter, where Paul is again telling his spiritual children, the Corinthians church, that they are now new creatures in Christ Jesus. Their old nature has passed away, died with Christ.  

 EXCUSES TO SIN OR SIT ON THE FENCE

A major danger in the thought that we, both saved and unsaved people, are "all sinners anyway," gives us a big fat excuse when we do sin. It can extinguish the motivation to repent and feel grieved about our sin, so that we would want to stop. "Oh, we're all just sinners anyway," makes everyone feel included. But is that a good thing? Wasn't it the truth about our miserable sin condition that caused us to come to Christ in the first place? If we are still the same, what was the purpose in His coming? Would that not have been a colossal waste of time and, even worse, sacrifice.

Another danger in holding this position that saints and sinners are in the same sin condition is it gives an excuse to not take sides. By that, I mean in the world, even after we are called out. We know that there are two kingdoms, of light an of darkness, so by not taking a side you are, in effect, choosing the wrong side. Jesus was a Rock of Offense, not purposefully, but the world is at enmity with God and God is at enmity with the world. He said, “^For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.” (Mark 8:38). So to try to walk the safe middle-ground is dangerous to saint’s soul.  

But this is what Jesus said in Revelation 3:15-17 to the Church as Laodicea,

¹⁵“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. ¹⁶ So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. ¹⁷ Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—"  

Please read and absorb all the Scripture in your concordance on any word with the root of "saint" and those with the root of "sinner."  Really on anything you find “fuzzy” in the Bible, do word studies, and use commentaries. But there is nothing better than asking Holy Spirit, the Original Author, what He meant then and means now. He does not change. There is much more on this particular word study, but I hope this is helpful. But the Lord wants us to understand that whiles we are in the world but not of it. Simply put, we are different.

As you can tell, I feel pretty strongly about this particular subject and sticking to the biblical differentiation. The two groups are mutually exclusive otherwise we look like spiritual schizophrenics. I am either a sinner OR a saint but never both. I still sin but that does not make me a sinner. That refers to a nature I no longer have. And although I am not perfect -yet-  my heart is inclined toward Him - unlike the sinner. And I am seeking first His Kingdom and His righteousness - unlike the sinner. (Matt 6:33). 

 Achieving Perfection

I can achieve perfection, not in my nature in this current body, but every time I obey the Holy Spirit and the Word of God that He has breathed, I am being perfect because then and only then do I look like Jesus, Who always obeyed the Father's word. So that means that a lot of people are deceived into thinking they are still sinners when they are not, while others are thinking they are saints and are not. 

CONCLUDING FOR NOW

So let’s not degrade our position in Christ by considering ourselves still sinners when our nature is now changed and in Christ. And let's not be flippant about the seriousness of sin and the plight of the sinner. Might I add, by their own choice? Sinners who remain unrepentant upon death or at His triumphal return, will be sent to hell. Sinners who turn to Christ before their deaths or His return, will reign with Him forever.

6.) Col. 3:3 – “For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.”

7.) Please also consider Ephesians 3:8-13. Powerful Scripture. 

8To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, ⁹ and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; ¹⁰ to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, ¹¹ according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, ¹² in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him. ¹³ Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

IN THE END, WE CAN EITHER IDENTIFY WITH OUR SIN, AND SIN NATURE, OR IDENTIFY WITH CHRIST, THE ONE WHO CAME TO SET US FREE FROM SIN. FREEDOM WILL NOT COME UNTIL WE EMBRACED IT. OUR SIN NATURE WILL ALWAYS YEARN FOR THE WORLD AND THE DESIRES OF THE FLESH, WHILE OUR REGENERATE SPIRIT WILL ALWAYS YEARN FOR GOD AND HIS WAYS. THAT WILL BE THE CASE UNTIL THIS EARTH’S JOURNEY IS OVER OR UPON JESUS’ RETURN. BUT UNTIL THEN, WE HAVE TO ENDURE THIS BATTLE BETWEEN OUR TWO SELVES, THE OLD AND THE NEW. ONLY ONE SELF CAN WIN. THE GOOD THING IS, EACH OF US GET TO DECIDE WHICH ONE.  THE BEST PART IS, HE IS HAS GIVEN US THE ULTIMATE HELPER, HOLY SPIRIT.  ULTIMATELY, HE WANTS TO WIN US MORE THAN WE WANT TO BE WON.